Phenylephrine shake and bake


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    Dr Darryl Inaba expands and includes a look at the chemistry involved, with left- and right- handed molelcules. Just a CNS: Not chicken. But what has come about is a process actually more; it seems like a more efficient process where they can take the Sudafed that is available.

    Many states restrict it to maybe a package of 24 or 30 tablets that you can buy, and you can only buy two packages of that and they make you buy it straight from the pharmacist behind the counter and that would eliminate, we thought, the massive amounts of Sudafed that could be used in of course manufacture of methamphetamine. But the shake and bake method, just takes a two liter soda bottle, plastic soda bottle. CNS: So is this a do it yourself?

    Darryl: Absolutely you know the, the pharmacies and the pharmaceutical firms and the government says they should, we should be instead using a similar type of chemical called phenylephrine. I mean do you have to have a prescription? They, they thought if you could keep somebody from getting thousands of pills then you can control methamphetamine. But people, as you mentioned enjoy it and effects tremendously effective for colds and congestion so the government allows you to buy packages of 24 tablets or two packages of 24 tablets which they thought would be impractical to convert to methamphetamine.

    But it just amazing how the street can come up with ways of more efficiently converting it to methamphetamine and therefore makes methamphetamine available for street abuse. CNS: Is it any less you know toxic than the bath tub method, the traditional? But the story of Sudafed itself is amazing and it, and it brings to light an interesting thing about organic chemistry and about psychoactive chemicals.

    Those carbons are asymmetric which means that when mother nature puts those together in a synthesis she actually makes a right and left handed molecule with it. In the case of methamphetamine or the what we call the phenyl-isopromines or phenyleph amines, we, our body responds to the stimulatory phase in our brain pretty much to the right handed side of the compound. Sudafederon was left handed.

    Sudafredrine which is in the same chemical family it looks like amphetamine, but is in fact a left handed pure left handed compound. Left handed methamphetamine is still sold in a number of decongestion products like Lytosine. So, I would, I would think, why do that, why even use Sudafed? But amazingly what occurred was that street chemists discovered that if you take pure left handed Sudafed and you convert it to a methamphetamine compound by adding a few carbons on to it and taking off the oxygen, pure left handed Sudafed makes pure right handed methamphetamine.

    So again the street just figured this out on their own and came out with that great stimulus of methamphetamine and the epidemic we had we thought was going to go away, now the street comes up with another method of, of just taking this Sudafed and basic chemicals that are out there and, and in a very easy synthesis way allowing people to shake and bake it up so that they have their own supply of meth.

    Do you think that the stimulant phase is continued because of the, the ever increasing pace of our life? And in another ten to thirty years following that where people seek out uppers or stimulants and that these oscillate these cycles oscillate back and forth ever since the eighteen hundreds.

    Well why does that occur as we talk about what goes up must come down. That when we have a depressant or depressed economy people naturally need to feel more energized some how, and so we get more abuse of uppers and then when we have an up economy people tend to just mellow themselves out with alcohol and downers and maybe that has to do with it. Well this has been the CNS pod cast on addiction for this week. I would encourage you if you have any questions or comments for Darryl please send them along we will try to respond to them if we can in the future pod cast.

    Thanks Darryl. Thanks for visiting the CNS pod cast. Please check back soon for the next in the series and visit our website www.

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    Then it encouraged pseudoephedrine-based production by banning or restricting other precursors. Appalled by all the scary, toxic, flammable meth labs that subsequently popped up around the country, it restricted access to cold and allergy remedies containing pseudoephedrine, forcing customers to ask pharmacists for them, sign a registry, and abide by quantity limits.

    Those restrictions, in turn, encouraged a shift to the " shake and bake " method for producing meth, which is less complicated and does not require as much pseudoephedrine but is in some ways more dangerous and more environmentally destructive. The next logical step, according to Lincoln County, Oregon, District Attorney Rob Bovett, is to require a prescription for products containing pseudoephedrine, thereby banning all over-the-counter sales.

    This time for sure! In a New York Times op-ed piece noted this morning by Radley Balko , Bovett suggests that a prescription requirement would not have much impact on consumers, since it would affect "only 15 pharmaceutical products and their generic equivalents. Many companies reformulated their products in response to the new restrictions which took effect nationally in , replacing pseudoephedrine with phenylephrine, which seems to be about as effective as a placebo but can be purchased without seeking permission from a state-appointed gatekeeper.

    A prescription requirement, which would add the cost and inconvenience of a medical appointment to the barriers, would be fatal to this product category. I do not accept Bovett's blithe assumption that any inconvenience and discomfort imposed upon cold and allergy sufferers is justified by the need to prevent people from getting high, since I do not think preventing people from getting high is a legitimate function of government.

    But even if it were, there is no reason to believe that requiring a prescription for cold and allergy remedies would accomplish that end or, as the headline on his piece puts it, "Kill the Meth Monster"—an unusually candid acknowledgment that drug warriors mainly fight chimerical threats of their own invention. Bovett concedes but is completely undeterred by the fact that the vast majority of illicit meth consumed in this country is supplied not by mom-and-pop labs or mobile shake-and-bakers but by large criminal organizations based in Mexico, which do not buy their pseudoephedrine a couple of packs at a time from Rite Aid.

    And even if all the world's pseudoephedrine could be magically eliminated, other methods of production would be used instead. Time and time again, the black market in drugs has proven highly adaptable since the government created it nearly a century ago. What Rob Bovett actually demands, then, is that people sacrifice cheap, safe, and effective medicine so he and like-minded authoritarians can look like they are fighting drug abuse.

    The proper response to this plea is a snot-filled sneeze of contempt. Previous coverage of the pseudoephedrine crackdown here.

    Breaking bad sniffles: Crystal meth made cold medicine rubbish

    But what has come about is a process actually more; it seems like a more efficient process where they can take the Sudafed that is available. Many states restrict it to maybe a package of 24 or 30 tablets that you can buy, and you can only buy two packages of that and they make you buy it straight from the pharmacist behind the counter and that would eliminate, we thought, the massive amounts of Sudafed that could be used in of course manufacture of methamphetamine.

    But the shake and bake method, just takes a two liter soda bottle, plastic soda bottle. CNS: So is this a do it yourself? Darryl: Absolutely you know the, the pharmacies and the pharmaceutical firms and the government says they should, we should be instead using a similar type of chemical called phenylephrine.

    I mean do you have to have a prescription? They, they thought if you could keep somebody from getting thousands of pills then you can control methamphetamine.

    But people, as you mentioned enjoy it and effects tremendously effective for colds and congestion so the government allows you to buy packages of 24 tablets or two packages of 24 tablets which they thought would be impractical to convert to methamphetamine.

    But it just amazing how the street can come up with ways of more efficiently converting it to methamphetamine and therefore makes methamphetamine available for street abuse.

    Speed 5: This Time for Sure!

    CNS: Is it any less you know toxic than the bath tub method, the traditional? But the story of Sudafed itself is amazing and it, and it brings to light an interesting thing about organic chemistry and about psychoactive chemicals.

    Those carbons are asymmetric which means that when mother nature puts those together in a synthesis she actually makes a right and left handed molecule with it.

    In the case of methamphetamine or the what we call the phenyl-isopromines or phenyleph amines, we, our body responds to the stimulatory phase in our brain pretty much to the right handed side of the compound. Sudafederon was left handed. Sudafredrine which is in the same chemical family it looks like amphetamine, but is in fact a left handed pure left handed compound.

    Many companies reformulated their products in response to the new restrictions which took effect nationally inreplacing pseudoephedrine with phenylephrine, which seems to be about as effective as a placebo but can be purchased without seeking permission from a state-appointed gatekeeper.

    A prescription requirement, which would add the cost and inconvenience of a medical appointment to the barriers, would be fatal to this product category.

    Meth continues to grow with “shake-n-bake”

    I do not accept Bovett's blithe assumption that any inconvenience and discomfort imposed upon cold and allergy sufferers is justified by the need to prevent people from getting high, since I do not think preventing people from getting high is a legitimate function of government. But even if it were, there is no reason to believe that requiring a prescription for cold and allergy remedies would accomplish that end or, as the headline on his piece puts it, "Kill the Meth Monster"—an unusually candid acknowledgment that drug warriors mainly fight chimerical threats of their own invention.

    Bovett concedes but is completely undeterred by the fact that the vast majority of illicit meth consumed in this country is supplied not by mom-and-pop labs or mobile shake-and-bakers but by large criminal organizations based in Mexico, which do not buy their pseudoephedrine a couple of packs at a time from Rite Aid.

    And even if all the world's pseudoephedrine could be magically eliminated, other methods of production would be used instead. Time and time again, the black market in drugs has proven highly adaptable since the government created it nearly a century ago. What Rob Bovett actually demands, then, is that people sacrifice cheap, safe, and effective medicine so he and like-minded authoritarians can look like they are fighting drug abuse.


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